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Thread: Go around procedure

  1. #1
    Senior Member Howie's Avatar
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    Go around procedure

    Just looking in the OI's and the procedure is as follows:

    - Don't touchdown
    - Clean up aircraft
    - Throttles Max
    - 10 to 20 degree nose high
    - 60 degree bank

    Now, I don't pretend to know about the A-10 but in the civil world it generally works something like this:

    - Apply full power
    - Retract drag devices/landing flaps (one stage)
    - Establish positive rate of climb
    - Clean up aircraft (takeoff flaps/gear up)
    - No turns under 300ft
    - 30 degree or less bank angle during climb

    The reason for not removing both stages of flap and limiting the bank angle is that they could both cause an unrecoverable loss of lift at low speed and altitude.

    Thoughts? Comments?
    Last edited by Howie; 03Nov14 at 10:54.

  2. #2
    Member Dojo's Avatar
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    I'm sure the real world pilots on here will chime in, but as I understand it, the classification of the aircraft matters. High performance military aircraft will always be treated slightly differently. For example, I don't *believe* you'll ever see a civilian aircraft ever do a Hi ILS approach and certainly not an overhead break. Both are which intended to get the aircraft on the ground as quickly as possible (given those conditions), primarily since they consume a lot of fuel.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Howie's Avatar
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    That's what I thought to a degree. I get that an F-15 can takeoff like a rocket if it wants to but with a combat loaded A-10 having nowhere near the same thrust to weight ratio, I would expect some fairly cautious minimums.

    If that's what real life Hogs do though then great. I only brought it up because if a flight examiner asked me to explain the go around procedure and I said flaps and gear up before full power and then a climbing 60 degree bank, I think he'd have a heart attack!

  4. #4
    Member Dojo's Avatar
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    By High performance, I did not mean high speed. The A10 is a high performance aircraft, as most military jets are. For example, the A10's turn performance at low speeds is exceptional. Also, the A10 has very high performing flight controls, including its speed breaks, which will outperform most civilian aircraft, and allows it to do very aggressive maneuvering in patterns if need be.
    Last edited by Dojo; 03Nov14 at 12:58.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Howie's Avatar
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    Yep. I'd agree with that. The A-10 isn't nearly as unforgiving as some aircraft during a go around but that's not really a good reason to form bad habits.

    If you tried the same thing in a swept wing aircraft with blown flaps - like the MiG-21 for example, you'd be eating dirt before you even reached for the throttle.

    Now, I don't know the exact procedures that the real A-10 drivers follow but I will say that I'd be surprised if they were as stated in our current OI's.

    I'm not trying to suggest that we should fly the A-10 like an Airbus but I think building good habits and understanding the core principles of flight that are generally applicable to most aircraft could turn a few potential code 4's into code 1's.

    In a Cessna for example, I'll climb on runway heading to 500ft before making any turns and then turn crosswind at <15 degrees of bank until reaching a circuit height of 1000ft at which point I'll make further turns at 30 degrees.

    Now, an A-10 is obviously capable of a lot more than a Cessna but if you picture an aircraft in a 60 degree bank and think about its lift vector and how much of that lift is being wasted it does seem a bit extreme.
    Last edited by Howie; 03Nov14 at 13:55.

  6. #6
    MrushR
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    I had the same question when I looked over the go around procedures in the A-10. Knowing that Ops Specs at the airlines can very drastically from the military, I was curious about the thought of Flap Retraction.

    Our current procedure is:

    "Go around, max thrust, flaps 9 (reduction from 45)"

    "positive rate, gear up, speed, (LNAV) "

    then at the specified FLAP retraction altitude (FRA, standard is 1,000ft AGL) the rest of the flaps are retracted. This was a change from flaps being retracted at Acceleration height. No turns prior to 400ft in visual conditions, 1,000ft in IMC.

    I was curious if flap retraction is delayed or specified during takeoff or go-around in the A-10.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Howie's Avatar
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    Looking at this video it appears the A-10's retract takeoff flaps fairly soon after the main gear is fully up. Probably around 100ft or so at a guess.

    A-10 Thunderbolts Take-Off: http://youtu.be/YmCf4DPa2z4
    Last edited by Howie; 03Nov14 at 15:58.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Baxter's Avatar
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    The procedure in the A-10 is

    THROTTLES - As Required
    SPEED BRAKES - Closed
    GEAR UP
    FLAPS UP ( 140 KIAS minimum)

    Set power to achieve at least 1,000 FPM climb at 200 to 220 kts. Accelerate to 200 to 250 knots if remaining in the pattern

    so thats pretty close...not really sure where that 60 degrees of bank came from. Typically the upwind leg is flown to a minimum of the end of the runway before turning towards the downwind.

    Settling can be an issue and thats why there is an 140 knot minimum speed for flap retraction. On aircraft like the F16 flaps are tied into the gear handle so gear retraction on a go around is down above 225 with the gear to avoid settling at high gross weights...obviously 225 comes quick in anything but an A10.

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  10. #9
    Senior Member Howie's Avatar
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    Is that flaps fully retracted at 140 KIAS?

  11. #10

    KOVIC


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    Read our checklist, it's all from the real -1. All our OIs are from real world A-10 documents so trying to figure out why may be fun but it's how it's done real world.

  12. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Snoopy For This Useful Post:

    Energy (03Nov14), Howie (03Nov14)

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