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Thread: Semi active CMS profile

  1. #11
    Senior Member Howie's Avatar
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    In that lua alone we have pretty much every radar guided ground threat in DCS. I can't see any missing.

    If we can map a CMS and jammer program to each threat individually, it would literally be a case of pushing one button and letting the CMS handle itself.

    We could have the absolute most effective chaff pattern for each threat AND have the A-10 spit flares at the Tunguska. Getting excited now.
    Last edited by Howie; 18Dec14 at 09:36.

  2. #12
    Member JayPee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Howie View Post
    Is there one of these somewhere for air to air threats as well? I think the program M thing was just discovered through testing.
    I've just dug through the DCS World root and so far haven't been able to come up with any other .LUA file which reasonably could effect all this. Since pretty much everything is programmed in .LUA files I don't think there is any further 'hardcoding' going on that we can't see.

    Maybe I'm dreaming right now but say we/you do find a solution to the ineffective semi-auto and auto modes, a next step could be to re-program the CMS switch. I am now reaching a point of merely assuming something so others would have to chime in if they can without facing trouble but I am thinking the CMS switch's functioing in the actual 10C is closer to the F-16 Blk 50/52's CMS switch than to what ED made out of it. However, my understanding of the CMS switch in the 16 is based solely on what can be found within the BMS/F-16.net community.
    Last edited by JayPee; 18Dec14 at 09:38.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Howie's Avatar
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    Auto mode will always be useless because as soon as a combined search and tracking radar like the SA-6 pops up on your RWR, I think it will start dispensing before you're even locked.

    Using that .lua we might be able to assign a unique program to purely search radars that consists of only ECM and doesn't dispense chaff, but the combined search/tracking radar issue will still be a problem.

    We should be able to make semi mode workable though. Although the prioritisation logic is kinda screwed in DCS so in a high threat environment it still might not select the correct program.
    Last edited by Howie; 18Dec14 at 10:16.

  4. #14
    Member JayPee's Avatar
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    If threats can be re-mapped to different programs I think the SA-3 and Hawk (currently program L) could just as easily be placed under program A for older generation RADAR. Eddie probably has an opinion on whether there is a significant difference between the SA-3/Hawk and the other older RADAR guided SAMs when it comes to countering these threats.

    Even when I try to understand ED's logic I cannot see why they would make a program specifically for the SA-3/Hawk...

    EDIT1:

    Howie, if you feel like messing around, try to see what happens when you use this file. Notice I attempt to define more than A, B, and L:
    Code:
    dofile(LockOn_Options.common_script_path..'wsTypes_SAM.lua')
    
    device_timer_dt	= 0.5
    
    JAMMER_SAM1 = 1
    JAMMER_SAM2 = 2
    JAMMER_AAA 	= 3
    
    -- a sequence below in an Alphabet order
    DEF_PROG_A		= 0
    DEF_PROG_B		= 1
    DEF_PROG_C		= 2
    DEF_PROG_D		= 3
    DEF_PROG_E		= 4
    DEF_PROG_F		= 5
    DEF_PROG_G		= 6
    DEF_PROG_H		= 7
    DEF_PROG_I		= 8
    DEF_PROG_J		= 9
    DEF_PROG_K		= 10
    
    
    JammersProgramsForSAM =
    {					
    	--Program SAM 1
    	{ JAMMER_SAM1,
    		{ Kub_STR_9S91, Osa_9A33, Roland_ADS, Roland_rdr, S125_SR_P_19, S125_TR_SNR, Hawk_SR_ANMPQ_50, Hawk_TR_ANMPQ_46}
    	},
    	--Program SAM 2
    	{ JAMMER_SAM2, 
    		{ S300PS_TR_30N6, Buk_SR_9S18M1, Buk_LN_9A310M1, Tor_9A331, Tunguska_2S6, Patriot_STR_ANMPQ_53 }
    	},
    	--Program AAA
    	{ JAMMER_AAA, 
    		{ Gepard, Vulcan_M163, ZSU_23_4_Shilka, Dog_Ear }
    	}
    }
    
    ChaffFlaresProgramsForRadars =
    {
    	--Program A
    	{ DEF_PROG_A,
    		{ Kub_STR_9S91}
    	},
    
    	--Program B
    	{ DEF_PROG_B,
    		{ Osa_9A33}
    	},
    
    	--Program C
    	{ DEF_PROG_C,
    		{ ZSU_23_4_Shilka}
    	},
    
    	--Program D
    	{ DEF_PROG_D,
    		{ S300PS_SR_5N66M, S300PS_TR_30N6}
    	},
    
    	--Program E
    	{ DEF_PROG_E,
    		{ Buk_SR_9S18M1, Buk_LN_9A310M1}
    	},
    	
    	--Program F
    	{ DEF_PROG_F,
    		{ Tor_9A331}
    	},
    
    	--Program G
    	{ DEF_PROG_G,
    		{ Tunguska_2S6}
    	},
    	
    	--Program H
    	{ DEF_PROG_H,
    		{ Roland_ADS}
    	},
    
    	--Program I
    	{ DEF_PROG_I,
    		{ Patriot_STR_ANMPQ_53}
    	},
    
    	--Program J
    	{ DEF_PROG_J,
    		{S125_SR_P_19, S125_TR_SNR}
    	},
    
    	--Program K
    	{ DEF_PROG_K,
    		{Hawk_SR_ANMPQ_50, Hawk_TR_ANMPQ_46}
    	},
    }
    
    need_to_be_closed = true -- close lua state after initialization
    If my understanding is correct it will now have a program for every single known threat and shoud switch to it accordingly. Every incoming missile for which no RWR threat is present should now use program L.

    But for starters, let's see if the client will run in the first place with this modification. I will try it myself tonight when I'm home.
    Last edited by JayPee; 18Dec14 at 11:08.

  5. #15
    Senior Member Howie's Avatar
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    What I would like to do is make serveal programs.

    Purely search radar programs = Appropriate ECM program only

    Combined search and track radar programs = appropriate ECM + chaff/flare program for the the specific threat type

    Tracking radar programs = appropriate ECM program, tons of chaff and the occasional flare for any pop up IR missiles that might launch on you while you're locked.

    Program 'M' (currently) for pop up IR missiles = loads of flares

  6. #16
    Member JayPee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Howie View Post
    What I would like to do is make serveal programs.

    Purely search radar programs = Appropriate ECM program only

    Combined search and track radar programs = appropriate ECM + chaff/flare program for the the specific threat type

    Tracking radar programs = appropriate ECM program, tons of chaff and the occasional flare for any pop up IR missiles that might launch on you while you're locked.

    Program 'M' (currently) for pop up IR missiles = loads of flares
    Fair enough, but we're still not certain that mapping more than program A, B, and L works.

    Regarding ECM I am afraid you can't mix up CM programs and ECM programs in such way. They are totally independent in DCS.

  7. #17
    Senior Member Howie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JayPee View Post
    Fair enough, but we're still not certain that mapping more than program A, B, and L works.
    True, but the way that .lua matches exactly what we see in the sim leads me to believe there is a strong possibility we can.

    Quote Originally Posted by JayPee View Post
    Regarding ECM I am afraid you can't mix up CM programs and ECM programs in such way. They are totally independent in DCS.
    JammersProgramsForSAM =
    {
    --Program SAM 1
    { JAMMER_SAM1,
    { Kub_STR_9S91, Osa_9A33, Roland_ADS, Roland_rdr, S125_SR_P_19, S125_TR_SNR, Hawk_SR_ANMPQ_50, Hawk_TR_ANMPQ_46}
    },

    Say we assign the S125_SR_P_19 (SA-3 search radar) its own CMS program 'A'. In semi mode the jammer will automatically activate ECM program SAM 1 (that is what it is assigned to in the .lua)

    We then make a custom CMS program 'A' that dispenses neither chaff nor flares.

    Now, in semi mode the CMS jumps to program A when painted by the P-19 radar but doesn't dispense chaff or flares when CMS forward is pressed, because program A is set not to.

    It will however run ECM program SAM 1 when the ECM button is pushed.

    If an IR missile pops up out of nowhere semi will jump to program 'M' by default and we can set that to drop a ton of flares.

    Say the S125_TR_SNR (SA-3 tracking radar) locks us, we can have it activate program 'B' which will be a ton of chaff and ECM SAM1.
    Last edited by Howie; 18Dec14 at 11:33.

  8. #18
    Member JayPee's Avatar
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    I understand you completely. I missed that bit when I said you can't mix ECM and dispense programs. However, in your example, you don't really need your empty dispense program A. Except when you want to combine starting an ECM program and a dispense program at the same time. You would then basically create the 'consent to release' command by combining the current CMS Z-axis with the current CMS up.

    SA-3 search: SAM1 + A (empty program)
    SA-3 track: SAM1 + B (chaff program)

    However I would consider this v2. Firstly we need to be able to redfine the dispense programs for every threat or at least per category for old RADAR, new RADAR, and Tunguskas.

    By the way, I think this thread is starting to earn TL;DR status for some people

    EDIT1:

    Here's the full list of units present in DCS. In case you want to push forward with the difference in programs for search RADARs and tracking RADARs.

    C:\Program Files\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World\Scripts\Aircrafts\_Common\Cockpit\wsTypes_SA M.lua

    Code:
    --- Names of SAM for cockpit use
    
    dofile("Scripts/Database/wsTypes.lua")
    
    -- SAM Missile
    	-- SA-3
    	S_125_LN_5P73	= {wsType_Ground, wsType_SAM, wsType_Miss, Hawk_}
    	-- SA-6
    	Kub_LN_2P25		= {wsType_Ground, wsType_SAM, wsType_Miss, KUB_2P25}
    	-- SA-9
    	Strela_1_9P31	= {wsType_Ground, wsType_SAM, wsType_Miss, Strela_9K31}
    	-- SA-10
    	S300PS_LN_5P85C = {wsType_Ground, wsType_SAM, wsType_Miss, PU_5P85C}
    	S300PS_LN_5P85D = {wsType_Ground, wsType_SAM, wsType_Miss, PU_5P85D}
    	-- SA-18
    	Igla_mpad_GRG	= {wsType_Ground, wsType_SAM, wsType_Miss, IglaGRG_1}
    	Igla_comm_GRG 	= {wsType_Ground, wsType_SAM, wsType_Miss, IglaGRG_2}
    	Igla_S_mpad_RUS	= {wsType_Ground, wsType_SAM, wsType_Miss, IglaRUS_1}
    	Igla_S_comm_RUS = {wsType_Ground, wsType_SAM, wsType_Miss, IglaRUS_2}
    
    	---
    	Stinger_mpad_USA = {wsType_Ground,wsType_SAM, wsType_Miss, StingerUSA_1}
    	Stinger_comm_USA = {wsType_Ground,wsType_SAM, wsType_Miss, StingerUSA_2}
    	Stinger_mpad_IZR = {wsType_Ground,wsType_SAM, wsType_Miss, StingerIZR_1}
    	Stinger_comm_IZR = {wsType_Ground,wsType_SAM, wsType_Miss, StingerIZR_2}
    
    	Patriot_LN_901 	= {wsType_Ground, wsType_SAM, wsType_Miss, Patriot_}
    	Hawk_LN_M192 	= {wsType_Ground, wsType_SAM, wsType_Miss, Hawk_}
    	Chaparral_M48	= {wsType_Ground, wsType_SAM, wsType_Miss, M48_Chaparral}
    
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    -- SAM Radar - Missile
    	-- SA-8
    	Osa_9A33		= {wsType_Ground, wsType_SAM, wsType_Radar_Miss, OSA_9A33BM3}
    	-- SA-11
    	Buk_LN_9A310M1	= {wsType_Ground, wsType_SAM, wsType_Radar_Miss, BUK_PU}
    	-- SA-15
    	Tor_9A331 		= {wsType_Ground, wsType_SAM, wsType_Radar_Miss, Tor_}
    	----
    	Roland_ADS		= {wsType_Ground, wsType_SAM, wsType_Radar_Miss, Roland_}
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    -- SAM Missile - GUN
    	-- SA-13
    	Strela_9A35M3 	= {wsType_Ground, wsType_SAM, wsType_MissGun, Strela_9K35}
    	----
    	Linebacker_M6	= {wsType_Ground, wsType_SAM, wsType_MissGun, M6Linebacker}
    	Avenger_M1097	= {wsType_Ground, wsType_SAM, wsType_MissGun, Avenger_}
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    -- SAM Radar - GUN
    	ZSU_23_4_Shilka	= {wsType_Ground, wsType_SAM, wsType_Radar_Gun, Shilka_}
    	Gepard			= {wsType_Ground, wsType_SAM, wsType_Radar_Gun, Gepard_}
    	Vulcan_M163 	= {wsType_Ground, wsType_SAM, wsType_Radar_Gun, wsTypeVulkan}
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    -- SAM Radar - GUN - Missile
    	-- SA - 19
    	Tunguska_2S6 = {wsType_Ground, wsType_SAM, wsType_Radar_MissGun, Tunguska_}
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    -- SAM GUN
    	ZU_23_Ural_ 			 = {wsType_Ground, wsType_SAM, wsType_Gun, ZU_23_URAL}
    	ZU_23_Insurgent_ 		 = {wsType_Ground, wsType_SAM, wsType_Gun, ZU_23_insurgent}
    	ZU_23_Insurgent_Closed 	 = {wsType_Ground, wsType_SAM, wsType_Gun, ZU_23_insurgent_okop}
    	ZU_23_Emplacement 		 = {wsType_Ground, wsType_SAM, wsType_Gun, ZU_23}
    	ZU_23_Emplacement_Closed = {wsType_Ground, wsType_SAM, wsType_Gun, ZU_23_OKOP}
    	ZU_23_Insurgent_Ural_ 	 = {wsType_Ground, wsType_SAM, wsType_Gun, ZU_23_insurgent_ural}
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    -- SAM Radar
    	-- SA - 3
    	S125_SR_P_19 		 = {wsType_Ground, wsType_SAM, wsType_Radar, SA3_SR} 
    	S125_TR_SNR 		 = {wsType_Ground, wsType_SAM, wsType_Radar, SA3_TR} 
    	-- SA - 6 
    	Kub_STR_9S91 		 = {wsType_Ground, wsType_SAM, wsType_Radar, KUB_1C91} 
    	-- SA - 10
    	S300PS_SR_64H6E 	 = {wsType_Ground, wsType_SAM, wsType_Radar, RLO_64H6E} 
    	S300PS_SR_5N66M 	 = {wsType_Ground, wsType_SAM, wsType_Radar, V_40B6MD}	
    	S300PS_TR_30N6 		 = {wsType_Ground, wsType_SAM, wsType_Radar, V_40B6M} 
    	-- SA - 11
    	Buk_SR_9S18M1		 = {wsType_Ground, wsType_SAM, wsType_Radar, BUK_9C18M1} 
    	
    	---
    	Patriot_STR_ANMPQ_53 = {wsType_Ground, wsType_SAM, wsType_Radar, Patr_AN_MPQ_53_P}
    	Hawk_SR_ANMPQ_50  	 = {wsType_Ground, wsType_SAM, wsType_Radar, Hawk_Search_Radar}
    	Hawk_TR_ANMPQ_46  	 = {wsType_Ground, wsType_SAM, wsType_Radar, Hawk_Track_Radar}
    	EWR_1L13_ 			 = {wsType_Ground, wsType_SAM, wsType_Radar, EWR_1L13}
    	EWR_55G6_ 			 = {wsType_Ground, wsType_SAM, wsType_Radar, EWR_55G6}
    	Roland_rdr			 = {wsType_Ground, wsType_SAM, wsType_Radar, Roland_Search_Radar}
    	Dog_Ear 			 = {wsType_Ground, wsType_SAM, wsType_Radar, Radar_Dog_Ear}
    
    	--- No units
    	RLO_9C15MT_			 = {wsType_Ground, wsType_SAM, wsType_Radar, RLO_9C15MT}	
    	RLO_9C19M2_			 = {wsType_Ground, wsType_SAM, wsType_Radar, RLO_9C19M2}
    	RLS_5H63C_			 = {wsType_Ground, wsType_SAM, wsType_Radar, RLS_5H63C}
    	RLS_9C32_1_			 = {wsType_Ground, wsType_SAM, wsType_Radar, RLS_9C32_1}
    	S300V_9A82_			 = {wsType_Ground, wsType_SAM, wsType_Radar_Miss, S300V_9A82}
    	BUK_LL_				 = {wsType_Ground, wsType_SAM, wsType_Radar_Miss, BUK_LL}
    
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Every section header starts with the word SAM followed by the systems/devices present on the units within that section. So SAM Radar would be the section containing all anti aircraft RADAR systems for example. Somehow ED calls every anti aircraft unit a SAM, probably for the sake of simplicity during programming.

    I really wonder what would happen if we map all IR launch units to a new flare program...
    Last edited by JayPee; 18Dec14 at 12:38.

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  10. #19
    Senior Member Howie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JayPee View Post
    By the way, I think this thread is starting to earn TL;DR status for most people
    Lol, absolutely.

    I'm at work at the moment but when I get home I'm gonna sit down with a pen a paper and test this all in DCS.

    If the .lua does what we think it does we can figure out exactly how threats are prioritied, we can work wonders with this.

  11. #20
    Senior Member Howie's Avatar
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    I'm really dreaming now, but I'm looking through that list and wondering if we can program individual missiles to activate a certain CMS program upon launch... We could make a full auto CMS system that would be better than the real world one...

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