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Thread: SA-15 tatics

  1. #11
    Senior Member Howie's Avatar
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    If forced correlate mode "tracks the motion of every pixel in the entire scene, and generates missile steering commands that cause the scene to "grow" equally in all directions" - does this mean that a smoke screen would be an extremely effective countermeasure IRL?
    Last edited by Howie; 29Dec14 at 10:14.

  2. #12
    GOMER 2 Noodle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Howie View Post
    ...does this mean that a smoke screen would be an extremely effective countermeasure IRL?
    Not necessarily. The H/K variants' CCD sensor operates toward the Near-Infrared (NIR) portion of the spectrum at 0.9 microns, a wavelength that generally penetrates battlefield smoke and haze. Therefore, sensor range can be much greater than visual range under these conditions.

    Water vapor and visible moisture have the greatest effect. Fog, clouds, precipitation, and/or high absolute humidity attenuate both the visible the NIR wavelengths very effectively.
    Last edited by Noodle; 29Dec14 at 10:28.

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  4. #13
    Member JayPee's Avatar
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    Pardon me, what is high-order detonation and low-order detonation in layman's terms? Google isn't really helpful here..

  5. #14
    GOMER 2 Noodle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JayPee View Post
    Pardon me, what is high-order detonation and low-order detonation in layman's terms? Google isn't really helpful here..
    Big boom; little boom.

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  7. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Coolhand View Post
    My Maverick blew up in mid air, I watched it. The first two SA-15s were destroyed from approx. 12 miles, any closer, and the radar came alive and defeated our Mavericks. We discussed the tactic of flooding the target with several of them, but was shown a method of correlating an H model from that distance before the radar went active.

    This last flight was a fun one for sure, we snuck up on him flying through the southern mountains and using a pop up like we learned in the competition. We thought our plan was sound, and sufficient, we were undetected and the Maverick was right on target. I still would like to know why it blew up.
    I think Noodle has covered quite comprehensively the mechanics of the Maverick, and why Forced Correlate is not for taking out air defences etc. so I won't add anything to that apart from to say that even though many of the limitations discussed are not currently simulated in DCS, we operate as if they are. The main issue you had is, as has been mentioned a matter of range. 13 NM is simply too far, the maverick has a maximum effective range of ~8 NM (ability to lock the target aside).

    Specifically in DCS the only limitation implemented at present is a total missile lifetime of 105 seconds after which the missile will self destruct. This was one of the last changes that I got through before leaving the test team and is the best ED could do to represent the ~100 second missile battery life, although as Noodle has said the missile should go ballistic rather than self destruct ED can't yet manage that in DCS.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coolhand View Post
    Thank you, I understand, but the SA-15 seems to me, to be a huge threat to any flight attempting to get to those targets you speak of. And like I explained earlier, that is our ultimate goal in our efforts, to eliminate the ground forces, but I have to get to them first.
    My logic may not be correct, but to me, it seems solid.
    It is a major threat, and you're correct in thinking they *may* need to be taken out. For a "flight night" type package where there are multiple flights working on a single objective then having a lead flight go in to take out a significant threat/group of threats is very much a good approach. However for a single flight, operating in isolation then it's not a good thing to be doing.

    The reason for this is simple, if there is nobody coming in shortly behind you to take out the things the air defences are protecting then taking them down is unlikely to achieve anything as the enemy will simply move in reinforcements to ensure continued air defence coverage of their forward forces.

    By far the more effective approach is to actually attack the things that the air defences are defending. Now it may be the case that due to said defences you will be limited to performing a bump-up single pass maverick attack, or even finding that you can't attack a certain area as a two-ship, in which case you need to find another target. It may also be the case that you find yourself unable to attack the target you have planned for because the air defences are too strong, and that is what your secondary target is for (and if you can't hot your secondary either, then you abort and go home).

    In OGS especially there will be times where a specific enemy force can only be successfully attacked with a large multi-flight package such as those that are put together for Sqn flight nights or even Group flights. That is excatly how OGS is designed.

    What you may find however is that if you do take out a less well defended enemy force, the highly defended force will re-deploy (either in part or as a whole) to another location where you can get in and take them out.

    Lastly, something I think you and some others are forgetting/unaware of. There are friendly ground forces in OGS as well, and they will advance to capture enemy positions if we can reduce the opposing force to numbers that they can handle. And that means taking out tanks/IFVs/APCs and artillery. An SA-15 is no threat whatsoever to a friendly tank and will be rolled over as if it was never even there.

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  9. #16
    Senior Member Coolhand's Avatar
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    Not only has my question been answered, I really enjoyed reading all this information about the Maverick itself, how to use it, how not to use it, and more tactics. It all makes perfect sense especially now knowing that the mission itself will re enforce with new air-defense units when they are destroyed.

    Thank you all for your time to answer my original question and share the knowledge of all the other subjects involved. Once again, I have learned more than one thing during this weekends efforts, I have many pages of new information to add to my steadily growing album.

    And hope to be a better pilot for it all the next time I fly.
    Thank you all once again!

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