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Thread: You scratch my back ill scratch yours?

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emmy View Post
    In real life*, you will find that checklists are divided into two types:
    1) Those that are used step by step to accomplish a task.
    2) Those that help ensure all tasks have been completed.

    An example of #1 would be a checklist that guides you through your pre-flight walkaround. You read it -> You Do It

    Emergency checklists tend to fall into the second category. You practice your procedures and try to commit them to rote memory because you may not have the luxury of time to "stop and read." A given situation may call for W, X, Y and Z in rapid fashion. Say, the flow for engine failure in a C172. But at 7500 to 9500 feet and an ok glide ratio, once you've fired all your memorized bullets and have configured for an off-field landing, you, oddly enough, actually have some time to pull out the checklist and make double sure you did absolutely everything you were supposed to do.

    And of course, with experience, even Type 1 checklists can become more like Type 2. I don't need to "Read -> Do" to pre-flight a Cessna 172 anymore, but I will totally "Do, Do, Do -> Stop And Double Check" using the pre-flight checklist in the POH. I don't really need a checklist to fire up my Warthog, but I do have some memory aids at hand for certain systems that either don't get used every flight (Secure Comms) or that may be used in alternative ways.

    (* Speaking as a 150-hour wonder GA pilot)

    To Scaley's point about flying in the group, I've found that knowing there are live bodies in the other cockpits tends to color everything. AI wingmen don't care if you're dragging your feet getting cranked up but, IMO, it makes you raise your game (or at least it makes you WANT to raise your game) to the level of those you're flying with.
    I totally get what you’re saying, speaking as a MEI I preach the Read/do and do/verify checklist usage all the time. When I teach multi students how to deal with an engine failure, very similarly to your C172 example.. the actions you take if you lose an engine at 9000ft allow you time to pull out the checklist and methodically go through troubleshooting the problem. An engine failure at 400AGL off the departure end of the runway is obviously very different and I teach that response should be not only memorized, but almost muscle memory. I appreciate you’re response and the perspective you have applying your skills from a GA environment to flying the A-10. Obviously something I have no experience with is where combat related checks fall on this spectrum, so I appreciate the insight! Where did you learn to fly btw?

  2. #12
    I earned my PP ASEL at a flight school called Tailwinds at Chandler (AZ) Muni .. KCHD.

    Unfortunately, the school AND the building that housed it are no longer standing.

    I also did some renting from Chandler Air Service.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emmy View Post
    I earned my PP ASEL at a flight school called Tailwinds at Chandler (AZ) Muni .. KCHD.

    Unfortunately, the school AND the building that housed it are no longer standing.

    I also did some renting from Chandler Air Service.
    Awesome! Are you going to go for your instrument?

  4. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by StickySide View Post
    Awesome! Are you going to go for your instrument?
    Not in my immediate future. I'm not current and flying (myself) isn't something I can comfortably afford right now.

    My efforts are directed more towards back seats, open doors and cargo ramps for my photography work.

  5. #15
    76th vFS Pilot Scaley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StickySide View Post
    This is gold, thanks for putting the time into this reply. I’m guessing there’s not really any good way to train formation flying with the in game AI?
    Yes, there absolutely is - just set yourself an AI A-10 in a racetrack at 200-280 IAS and practice following the dumb guy round! If you look in the TTP 3-3- it has examples of the visual references for close and route formation You can get these totally sorted in straight and level with the AI, as well as basic inside and outside turns, crossunders and straight ahead rejoins.

  6. #16
    GOMER 2 Noodle's Avatar
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    Interesting checklist conversation. In transport category airplanes it's essentially the opposite of what you guys described. Normal checklists are accomplished by performing a silent flow from memory, then reading a "challenge & verify" checklist aloud to verify that all actions were accomplished.

    Emergency checklists tend to be "read and do", so as not to fuck up something important. Some emergency checklists contain several bold face memory items because immediate action is required for things like rejected takeoffs and rapid decompression, etc. Sometimes the immediate action drill requires both pilots, such as confirming which throttle to cut off, which prop to feather, and which generator or hydraulic system to shutdown. After the immediate action drill is complete, the checklist continues in a "read & do" format for the PNF/PM.

    In a single seat fighter, the plastic brains are only taken out in case of an emergency, and even then, it's usually the wingman or SOF who reads it aloud over the radio to the pilot experiencing the malfunction. Normal and bold face emergency procedures are committed to memory. Normal procedures often use mnemonic devices as memory aids, whereas bold face procedures are learned verbatim.

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